Apollo Bicycles and Shit Service

For the last few days, I have had 2 really brilliant bits of sales service, and a whole heap of clueless / indifferent / lazy / go fuck yourself - levels of attitude from people who are so stupid or give such shit service....

One of them was from a guy working in sales at Apollo Bicycles, but more on him later, but the rest of them were from computer parts suppliers.... including the manufacturer....

OK I am upping the RAM in a couple of NETBOOKS - lovely little ACER D270's and I have the workshop manual for it - which is why I know exactly what the parts are for it, that I want.

The first place I called was an Office Works retailer, who has "trained IT professionals", who I asked to speak too when I rang them... but most of them are pretty clueless "till stuffers" - who call putting batteries in a vibrator high tech electronics.

The high tech person was busy stuffing tills, and so they promised a call back, and typically the call back never came, as they never do. Actually I can't ever remember ever getting a call back from them ever.....


I rang ACER computers, got through to the right dept and the doofus I talked too, said they only had ONE yes "1" RAM module left and they could not get any more because the supplier wasn't supplying them with anymore of them, any more....

So when I said, "So why are you not getting more RAM, from other suppliers?" - he replied with some shit, along the lines of "Oh we can't do that."

"Well why the in the fuck not?"

These days I rarely even tell people like that to fuck off or drag out the dialogue...

I just hang up.



One computer shop, who I know to be full of consistently fucking useless people, when I asked the guy who answered the phone, did he have some 2 GIG sticks of DDR3 1333Mhz Laptop RAM in stock, he said, "Oh Oh bring it in so our technician can look at it and tell you what it is that you need."

The answer shortened down a lot, comes to "Do you have these RAM modules in stock or don't you?" because:

a) I know exactly what it is that I want.

b) The dumb fuck isn't listening, and he is not supplying the answer.

c) He expects me to travel all the way to the store so that they can tell me what it is that I want, when I already know what it is that I want...

d) And there he is on the phone, with a running terminal in front of him, with his data base open, and rows and rows of stock around him, and it's the defacto RAM module for laptops....

You know like what type of sauce do you usually get with meat pies - same thing for Laptop RAM.

And the idiot is asking me to come to the store, instead of having a look at what they have in stock and giving a yes or no answer.


"Bye Bye useless time wasting person."



The next was some some fucking woman, in some retail chain store outlet, who thought that although she had worked in the store for like 10 years and the place was not that big, and "Yes they sold computers as well" - that

a) Although she was not a computer specialist, which usually mean saying to customers, "Oh here is a brochure on it - it's $499 and comes with a big screen that has ummm like colors and everything on it."  -

b) She declared that this lack of technical expertise also excluded her from going and walking like 20 paces, and finding out WHERE the packets of RAM actually are and

c) Reading them for their specifications, and then cross checking that they are for laptops (because the blocks are small - where as the PC ones are about 2 x as long)....

"What? Me make the most minimal of efforts to upgrade my knowledge of our product range, to make a sale, when it's someone else's job, and they are not here right now,  so that I can make a sale?"

I got to thinking, "Me put YOU on the payroll to EARN your income in this transaction?, or what are the chances of ME ever ringing this store again? - It's just gone from an opportunity for a whole heap of good things, like raising the IQ, making a sale and earning future business to being fucked off as an impediment to my progress.

"Awww umm laptop RAM, 2Gig, DDRIII and 1333...." and all on the one packet, - that is too much specialist activity like DIY brain surgery with a hand saw.

Uggghhhhhh Fuck you know.......

Click....


Anyway, after fucking off the Fantastic Four, I got one guy in a computer shop, and the conversation went like this -  "Yes, we have them in stock. They cost this much. Do you want to come in and pick them or pay for them over the phone and have us send them out?"

I almost cried....

The business card came in the box with the parts.....

They now get all the business.



So anyway back to the Apollo Bicycles.....

The modern bicycle has a cartridge (sealed, one piece) bearing, that screws into the bicycle frame, and has the pedals and gears and all, bolted to it's shafts.

I pushed this issue on a global basis about 10 or 12 years back and now it's the defacto standard for bearings on bicycles.

I said, "What is it with you bicycle manufacturers? I can buy a car with bearing / shaft seals on the engine and wheels, that go for 500,000Km and not leak or wear out, and yet you idiots are putting bearings on bikes that are open and fill up with dirt and water and shit and the bearings are fucked in 3000 - 5000Km unless you strip them and clean them every fucking month - and the very few that did have seals - they were pathetic seals, that don't work anyway....

The bearings on a bicycle, IF they are adequately designed, they are LOW RPM, low load, low speed, with proper lubricants such as anti-seize compounds (copper / nickel / alum powder in a grease base) - they should last basically forever.

We are no longer living in the age of ox carts, greasing the wooden wheels with fat, and decent oil / dust seals have been around for a LONG time and really are very cheap.

 So when are you going put decent sealed bearings on the bicycles?"



I sent that around the world, changed the perspective on bicycle bearings and then they all started to introduce them.


Anyway I call it the Crank Shaft Bearing, the retards call it the bottom bracket bearing.

Apollo use cheap shit bearings, not good SKF bearings... but their getting bikes built to the lowest bottom dollar price is not quite the point - but their bottom dollar service is.

Here is one of the typical sealed cartridge crankshaft bearings here:

The modern bicycle after having been developed over a couple of hundred years, still carries certain ancient thread types and sizes, partly because of the issues of backwards compatibility, and because the threads etc., are actually good thread types for those particular applications - so most of them come with the "English Thread".

For the most part, the cartridge bearings are the same diameter and size, but the tapered square shafts poking out the ends, that all of your pedals, cranks, and gears hang off, have variations in their length, for different frame types and widths and sizes and all....

And those shaft lengths ARE the really important bit....

AND generally speaking, their small variations in lengths are not critical, but getting the exact CORRECT length is, and they may be similar but the range (sort of) extends from (making this up) say 24mm, to 32mm, in increments of 1 or 2mm.

It's important to get the right length because the length determines the spacing of the front gears, from the frame, the chain alignment to the back wheel etc...

There is also the difference when the chain derails, as to whether it jams between the sprockets and the frame or whether is slides between them... Intentional or not, it's one of the more serious problems when it jams.


So given that Apollo, I'd say, don't design fuck all, they just pull a list of things from a manufacturers data base in China, and say, make us 10,000 of these models, in these colors with these parts hanging off them.... and then they stick their own badge on them.... and say, "Oh our unique range of Apollo Bicycles - bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.."


How I came into the Apollo frame.. 


Well I bought an Apollo bike with an aluminium frame - and because I am a big bloke and when fit - I am immensely strong - I have no trouble bending axles etc.. and the typically less than sterling frames do have a habit of cracking.

Frame warranty is an issue.

The bike shop I bought it from said the ALUMINIUM frame had a 10 year warranty. The reason they fucked up and said it had a 10 year warranty, is because they had not bothered to read the manuals that came with the bikes that stated that the aluminium frames come with a 6 year warranty and the steel ones come with a 10 year warranty.

So when the frame cracked around the seat post, I filed for a replacement frame, and of course this particular bike shop tried to weasel their way out of it, and the knobs of Apollo bicycles would not come to the party either.

No frame on the next delivery to the dealer at cost price etc... 

Money grubbing terds.

The dealer and the folks at Apollo Bicycles tried to make me the meat in spit roast, based upon their bullshit.

When the blokes in the bike shop tried to bullshit their way out of it, and I said, "NO fucking way sport." - with the utmost resentment, they stripped the frame off a running new bike and gave me that.

The odd thing was, that the ONLY part they left in / one the frame, was the crank shaft bearing.  The ONLY reason they left the crankshaft bearing in the frame - is because the bearing is a piece of shit.

Well it only took about 300 or 400 KM of sedate roll around the area riding for the  crank shaft bearings to make, "Lets make worsera noises" as we go along, until they fail.


, so I am after NEW crank arms and gear sets (one set of components) and a new crank shaft bearing.

I'd also much rather KNOW exactly what the part sizes are, from the manual - which when it comes down to it, the piss weak Apollo "Our bike has wheels and a seat - it's just so good." sales brochures are a fair indicator of what "slap it together and sell it" service your going to get from the company because the manual / sales brochure is worthless as far as the specs go.

I like to order parts online, well in advance, of the anticipated change over day - and their manuals are shit so I have to ask them by email, what are the specs on the bottom end bearing?

This is the actual "manual" / only info they have on it - which is not very good.

So I emailed the manufacture for the specifications on this bearing and it's shaft lengths, - well not really the manufacturer, the bicycle importer and rebrander, from China type manufacturer... and this is the reply:


We will just call the guy, "John Thomas".

 
The Query:

Subject: Parts required.

http://2009.apollobikes.com/bikes09/id/53/cid/37/parent/0/t/bikes09

Shadow Mens 700c 24 Speed Cross Bike

What is the size of the bottom end bearing, the thread size and type and shaft lengths?

What brand bottom end bearing is originally included and what is the part number?

Regards


The Reply:


Your 2009 Shadow as shown in the link uses an industry standard 168mm* cartridge bottom bracket and standard English threading in the bottom bracket shell of the frame.

There is no part number as such as the EXACT part we used in the day is probably out of production now and superseded by a better bottom bracket at a cheaper price.**

A cartridge bottom bracket is replaced in it’s entirety when it wears out, ones doesn’t press bearings out and fit new ones.

Any competent bike shop in the Australia should be able to assist you.


*It's actually a 68mm bearing that screws into a 68mm piece of threaded tubing - that is part of the frame - so it's nice to know he has no idea about bearing sizes for starters.

** And a better bearing at a cheaper price????? These are the WORST of the cheapest bearings that you can get. And by this they mean "Higher markups, on a shitter product."


The Query in Reply:

Subject: Re: Parts required.

These were probably assembled and badged to you specs, with the parts of your choosing, by the container (full), from China.

Can you look a little bit harder for me, to find out the exact specs of the bearing used - including the amount of shaft projection etc.

Regards


The Reply:



May I ask as to why you ask for such specifics as what we sare talking about here is what EVERY competent bike shop in the country would have in stock.

The measurements you ask for aren’t recorded in this industry and with in excess of 190 different bicycles every year, the searching for an original spec sheet is a VERY BIG ASK.

We should be able to help you in some other way.

What are you trying to achieve here ?

Cheers,


The Query in Reply:

Oh you mean narrowing the 190 odd models down by year = 2009, that eliminates a heap.

Then naming the model, like "Apollo Shadow" - also eliminates all the rest of them....

OK so what is so hard about searching the remainder?

Oh I forgot - that came in 2 colors... So we take away the silver one with the blue pin striping and that leaves the silver one with the red pin striping....

I forgot - aside from the pin stripes, that model is identical.

"May I ask as to why you ask for such specifics as what we are talking about here is what EVERY competent bike shop in the country would have in stock."

May I ask why your into deflecting the question, instead of answering it?

Or am I to think that you are just too full of shit to do anything except make piss weak excuses and cop-outs?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As tragic as it may seem, I never got a reply.

So I sent him a link to this page:


http://suker-punch.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/apollo-bicycles-and-shit-service.html


He arced up big time - and changed his tune a lot too.

"Thanks for the kind comments.

I was getting a bike in and going to strip it to measure the bottom bracket axle EXACTLY for you, which despite everything you have done so far, I will still continue to do. Given that your second email to me was less than 48 hours ago I would have thought you would have been able to show sufficient patience to wait for a reply.

As to your comments in your email and your subsequent posting, I would advise you that we have libel and slander laws in this country and that you are running very close to the wind towards being sued. So back it up a bit sunshine and just let me try and help you.

Which is all I was trying to do in the first place.

The questions raised were made in trying to find out what it was you were trying to do with your bottom bracket, not an attempt to duck and dive from answering.

So let me have the chance to answer you correctly. I expect we should have the bike Monday and an answer later that day.

In the meantime, just have a Bex and a lie down. I think you need it.

Cheers,"


So I sent one back to him:


I will just pull a few service days, strip the bottom end, measure it all up, get a SKF bearing and new crank arms, sent in by courier and you can keep your bullshit games (and) bullshit service

Your not working for me.

Remember that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

I don't buy his bullshit for a minute. The correct answer would have been something like this:

"The left side projects 22mm, the right side or drive side, projects 27mm, and the cartridge length is 68mm with the english thread."

What did he give? 

Playing 72 questions and a whole heap of "just feeding me bullshit."

Until he was put on the spot.

Payday is coming....

Strip the bottom end, measure it all up and then order from a supplier that can get the parts and ONLY sign up the people who get the job done.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Final Outcome - or Great Reasons NOT to buy Apollo bikes..


Yes I have the tools to strip and rebuild a bike... completely. I even design and build unbreakable compound axles, head stem bearings, brackets, machine out hubs and install ball bearings and get rid of the cup bearings etc....

Not one to be trifled with - to put it bluntly.

Anyway the  CRANK SHAFT BEARING  - or what the technologically inept call "The bottom bracket bearing" - had been deterioration spiral for a long time....

Every 2 and 5/17ths of a revolution all the flat spots on the bearing balls, would line up, with the craters in the races - and it would make a nasty little clunk.

Not the thing you need when it's your sole means of transport and your regular fitness rides are sounding like a little cement mixer with a little brick in it - Also this is not good if your with  a long way from home.

So it did not get ridden a real lot - but after a NEW cassette, brake levers, rear tyre etc., etc., the bearing got upset and made nastier noises with even less provocation.

It was time to pull it out and spend up on servicing the whole of the remaining issues.

And guess what that bucket of shit bike (frame) came with?

The Apollo 30th Anniversary edition came with a VP (brand) VP-BC73 crank shaft bearing.

Of all the bearings on the market, the SKF's sell for $150. The higher spec Shimano's cost ~$40 - $45.

The VP brand bearings - sell for $10.

That is why the bike shop left the crankshaft bearing in the frame - when they stripped it and gave it to me. 

The people in Apollo Bikes are quite willing to dump parts that are total bottom dollar shit into their bikes.


These VP bearings are OK for a 40Kg child on a cheap get them around the neighborhood / school runs bicycle - But for an Adult? And on the 30th Anniversary special deluxe edition hybrid bicycle - "You fucking cheap skate morons."

The "Biggest Hype" Anniversary Edition Apollo bike, was fitted with the cheapest, scummiest, lowest bottom dollar crankshaft bearings you can buy.

This is like saying the hyped up bullshit of getting a $500,000 Aston Martin car, with the implication of containing a rocket ship V8 engine, and sneaking in a no name $100 water pump motor.

 My time is VALUABLE.  If it was a daily commuter - say 20K of strong riding each way or 40Km per day, that means technically - the crankshaft bearing will be going badly within about 400 - and utterly dead by 700Km, then thanks to the stooge rip off antics of the people running Apollo - that bike will have to be put in for a service say around the 500Km mark - I have gotten about 3 weeks of riding - before the bearing completely shits it's self.


Assuming that you use a bike shop - that is an hour to take it there, $45 for a decent Shimano bearing, and another hour to go pick it up - and assuming ones billable rates are what ever they are, you have just blown 2 hours of wages and all the travel time and hassles + the cost of a NEW bearing, and the mechanics wages - the cost of hiring the bike shop to do the work - all thanks to the short changing of the people running the Apollo Drop Ship Bike Co.

The parts list in China designers have just cost me 2 hours wages and a new bearing.

No it's not a bike that you can commute on daily for 10 years before you need new cranks shaft bearings, it's about 3 weeks before the bearings are fucked.



The offending bearing - with the threaded retainers on it, for screwing into the frame.

 The bearing without one of the screw caps......

"Ooooo separate ball bearings with a sleeve in between them... Mmmm quality."

"Mmmmmm I can sure go touring around Australia on that bearing." (if I can be fucked carrying 35 spare bearings for the trip) 

"Good one Apollo" - with it's bottom dollar management team - who I would love to meet on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere, when the bearing completely disintergrates somewhere between 800K and 1500K, so we can renegotiate their ethics, pricing and build quality.

But have a look at the ball bearing race - on the left of the cylindrical spacer - See that matt ring about the outside of it it? The shell is flexing from flat to wine barrel shape, and the clear single track in the middle of the matt strip, shows the balls are pushing their way through the bearing shell.

These are fucking junk bearings.

This is about as cheap and as nasty as they can get.

So fuck you Apollo and your high priced (~$600 - $700 ) special 30th anniversary edition bicycle, with the Kmart parts ( that come in the cheapest nastiest shit $80 - $120 bicycle).

I suppose when all is said and done, at least the crappy bullshit parts are consistent with the their crappy bullshit service.

You can't fault them on that score.

But it gets better. Not only are the bearings the cheapest shit bearings on the market, but they are made from the cheapest shit components.

For instance, the fretting (the ground matte stripes) around the circumference of the bearing, means the bearing shell is flexing and squeezing - into a barrel shape - and it's rubbing in the shells on the high point.

The races and balls are bad alloy and badly made and the races and balls are "crumbing" or the surface hardening is breaking away from the metal behind it - kind of like pie crust pushing off a pie, when you roll something like a golf ball across it.

Each bearing shell is in effect turning into 2 rings, instead of one race.

Given what a scam they are pulling with their cheapest possible shit at the highest possible mark up scam - I won't be surprised if their next "bright" move will be banana skin brake pads.

So the verdict is that the people running Apollo can shove their bikes and their bullshit customer service up their arses...



This is what I am getting as a replacement - the Shimano UN55's - These are very good and at $40 a pop retail... they are good value, solid, reliable and with a reasonably good long life span.

This is what I really want but the only supplier is in the USA, (no one in Australia is carrying them) and the global price is around $150 each....

In reality, you SHOULD be able to buy the ONE bicycle and with care and protection, it should be able to last a life time.

The bicycle gearing systems, and all the bearings should be sealed against dust and water...

All the bearings should be designed to be far more than adequate, for the loadings.

I'd like to see a line of bike that are heirloom bicycles, that aside from the grips and the tyres, that with care, they will last 2 or 3 generations.



One of the basic problem with the bicycle is designing things to "fit the bike" (the universal range of sizes) rather than designing for optimum longevity - which means bigger bearings with thicker shells and races and shafts.....

So while much can be done with a good design, much better can be done with a better design...

Thus we have the SKF bearing with very good metallurgy, heat treatment etc...

The chain or drive side bearing, carries the shared semi-cyclic loading of the both the pedals, the weight off the rider and the forces transmitted by the rider, but it also transmits the load from the crank to the back wheel - so in effect you kind of need about 3 to 5 times the surface point contact area in the drive side bearing, as you do in the left side bearing.

SKF have elected to put in nice WIDE roller bearings on the drive side.

This is a very, very, good design.It's a pity that the bottom brackets do not have bigger holes in them, so that you can put in bigger bearings with more balls and thicker shells and or thicker races.

They come with a 100,000Km / 10 year warranty.

The have an excellent sealing system.



Where to get them - or to look up the local suppliers.

http://janheine.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/skf-bottom-brackets-world-exclusive/

http://www.compasscycle.com/bb_SKFBXC_isis.html

http://www.compasscycle.com/bb_SKFBRC_iso.html



http://www.compasscycle.com/shops.html




Why I chose to change the cycling industry.


For many years I thought "All the bearings on bicycles are basically OPEN to the elements - water - dirt - dust etc., or the ones that have "seals" are not particularly impressive. Within a few thousand Km or lots of dirt or a few immersions and a few hundred KM etc., the bearings either need stripping and and cleaning and possibly new balls, or they are outright ground up and ground out and they are fucked.


And YET the bearings in cars or trucks, the oils on the inside the spinning shafts and parts are on the outside, and the motor will spin at say 1200 - 4000 RPM - and they will do it for a 500 thousand to a million or more Kilometers, and they are still working.

The oil is on the inside, the dirt and rain is on the outside and the the seals are just fine....

The bicycle bearings and shafts etc., spin at extraordinarily low speed with low loads, and IF they we get away from this 211.574 gram bicycle bullshit - where thinness and lightness really do limit structural integrity   - a set of bearings and seals - well ONE decent set bearings SHOULD easily last an entire life time of daily commuting on a bicycle.

Seriously a bike with decent LOAD appropriate bearings - you SHOULD be able to buy a bike for life... The ONE bike, aside from tyres etc., should last a life time..

So in my seething rage at the BICYCLE MANUFACTURERS and BEARING MANUFACTURERS still building bikes and bearings that are running open crank shaft and wheel bearings - I got off my arse and I contacted all the bike and bearing manufacturers around the world - and I gave them my simplified bike bearing design and longevity, Vs. the car engine bearings and seals argument.

They all said, "Ummmm yeah - he is right - the OPEN cheap shit shell bearings - are a residual design from antiquity and every one else are running decent bearings and seals and we are still making bearings that belongs in 1780 ox carts."

So thanks to me, we all now have some really decent bearing sets, with decent seals, on some decent bikes.

It's now a global issue.

This is good.



 As an after thought on the subject of wear and tear on chains etc...

To put this rather roughly, even with the best lubricants and all, chains and gears running in the open air, do get ground up by dust and dirt and water etc...

At best new gears and chain every 3000 - 5000Km... Might be way more if you live in a cool area with lots of long green grass and might be way less if you live in the Sahara desert with all the dust and sand storms.

This really shits me, because if you can keep the dirt out of the drive system, then the chain and gears really will last forever.

As one former aquaintance said many years ago, "Think of the cam chain that runs around inside your car / motorcycle engine - always wet with oil and no dirt - and how many thousands of millions of revolutions do they make." 



My next move is to get bicycles with covered drives, that last for life - You get one at 16 and hang up your spurs at 116.

Same bike 20 sets of tyres..

I want brilliant bearings and a sealed gearing system.


So thanks to SKF and Shimano for the excellent bearings.



And a huge fuck you to Apollo for their bullshit cheap skate parts and high mark up bikes and the crap service.

Not buying your stuff again.

So over being fed stupid bullshit to cover up for crap components.