Why is there so many useless fucking people, giving such bullshit customer service?
Stupidity begets stupidity.....
It just gets recycled and passed on and grows like entropy of deficiency.
Stupid manufacturers, make stupid products, to be sold by stupid retailers, that get bought by stupid consumers.....
Who raise stupid children who grow up and get jobs as stupid people in stupid companies who put out stupid products etc....
Like the morons in World War One...
One line of men jump up out of the trenchs - they all rush at the machine guns...
They all get shot to pieces...
Then the next line of morons, jumps up out of the trenches, and run at the machine guns....
The people in the military, the people in the government, the people in the news papers.... all hush it up..
That 10,000 people were dumb enough to obey orders, by idiots, to get used as target practice, while the weapons manufacturers made huge profits....
And everyone who refuses to be stupid enough to be used as target practice, gets shot for insubordination.... by idiots...
So we have thousands and thousands of people in the refrigeration industry, who make freezers, with a thermostat type control, that goes from LOW to HIGH - and no specific temperature is listed for that setting...
And not one of these fucking idiots "get it" that adjusting the temperature, means you need to KNOW what the temperature actually is.....
And the thermostat needs to have it's dial graduated to specific temperatures in degrees centigrade, instead of numbers like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc., or small to big wedge type lines - like volume or brightness controls on audio visual equipment.....
Then the whole "fuckup" is front lined by people in the customer service dept, who not only don't they know anything about their product, or how it works, the advice they give is total bullshit......
Haier makes chest freezers - Haier is owned / distributed by Fischer Paykel...
The chest freezer has a KNOB on the front - which I can radically assume, is the thermostat, to set the preferred internal temperature too.
What that temperature is? Who knows? Number 2 or 4 or 6 on a scale - is NOT a temperature.
And non of these fridges / freezers who make them - "get it".
This goes for a whole heap of manufacturers.
The commercial / supermarket fridges and freezers have temperature settings - but the domestic ones - to the best of my knowledge, generally speaking, don't.
Why is this an issue? Because I want to see exactly what the minimum and maximum temperatures are. I want to set the cooler to 5*C above zero, or the freezer to minus 5, 10, or 15 degrees centigrade - then numbers "1" to "6" on a dial are not good enough.
With the Haier Chest FREEZER - So exactly how close to below 0*C at minimum - it will go; and how far below 0*C - it will go - on maximum - and everywhere in between. I also want to set it to a TEMPERATURE.
The Haier chest freezer's control knob looks something like this, and tells me absolutely NOTHING.
This is all that it says in the manual....
Hmmmm - it says, "You can adjust the temperature to your needs."
Number 6. on a thermostats dial, is not a temperature.
It's a switching point on a thermostats relay.
It's like saying "The car tyre is a bit soft" or "It's pretty hard", for an inflation pressure.
But this is not the RATED PRESSURE in Kilopascals.
And this is what these idiot designers are serving up - a freezer that goes from "A bit cold" to "Really cold" - but it does not correlate with setting it to DEGREES CENTIGRADE.
A knob with MIN - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, MAX - is NOT a temperature - it's an uncorrelated SCALE.
If it read Degrees Centigrade - that would be a temperature....
What these idiots have done is screen printed a "number line", on a thermostats covering plate.... and the "NUMBER LINE" is not a TEMPERATURE.
And there is NO clearly defined MINIMUM temperature (close to Minus 0*C) and there is NO clearly defined MAXIMUM temperature (way below 0*C).
So you cannot adjust the temperature, because there is no rated definition of that temperature.
You cannot set it to - 5*C for the easy slicing of frozen meat, or product that only needs to be kept cold for short storage times, before use....
Or if your using lots of ice cream, you might want to set it to an ideal serving temperature of say minus 10*C, or you might want to use the freezer exclusively for LONG TERM meat storage - somewhere approaching minus 20*C.
Number 3 on a scale, doesn't cut it.
All that you can adjust is the switching point of the thermostat's relay - relative to some immeasurable temperature.
The people who design and market this are fucking idiots.
So this stupidity is passed onto the retailers - most of whom in the white goods sales dept., do NOT have a back ground in engineering or technical subjects......
The retailers website, are spewing the factory sales bullshit pitch, which says this:
Yes - and exactly what in the fuck ARE those temperatures?
And where does "Minimum" begin, and "Maximum" end?
Is it -10? -15? -20? -25?
Keeping meat at minus 10*C - is ok for a few weeks - but you might have a hospital trip after 6 months....
Minus 25*C is good for keeping meat for a year...
So the fuckwits that design these freezers, are into letting the consumer play guessing games - with food preservation; which is why people buy the damned things in the first place.
The management, the engineers / refrigeration / electrical / parts contractors / assemblers etc., are fools of the first order....
"This is the way we have always done it" - like lemmings out of the trenches and into the machine gun bullets.... away the unthinking clots go.
Now their crap is flowing through the wholesalers / retailers / sales depts - and they are just parroting the stupidity of the manufacturers.
Granted that this enquiry went to QUEENSLAND - and many people there thought that Joe Bjke Petersen and Flo - and her fucking pumpkin scones made Queensland the Capital of Jesus Land - require the same thing to be said, slowly. like 3 times in a row.....
This went to Fisher and Paykel - the MANUFACTURER of the chest freezer:
"What are the internal dimensions of the chest freezer, and what is it's warmest and coldest temperatures"
(As far as I am concerned, given what a shit job they have done of defining "Temperature" as in Degrees Centigrade - as non specific numbers on a thermostat knob, and their useless fucking user manual - this is an entirely appropriate question)
The Reply:
"Thank you for your email. We apologise for the delayed response.
We could not locate the internal dimensions in our system and have forwarded a request onto our technical department to see if they can locate this information.
It may be best to measure the interior dimensions at a local retailer as we do not have this appliance in our showroom to measure them for you. To find out who is your local Haier authorised dealer please click on the following link:
http://www.haier.com.au/where-
In regards to your query, this freezer is designed to run at -18 degrees Celsius. This can fluctuate between 17 & 19 degrees Celsius..
We apologise we were not able to locate all of the information you have requested.
If we can be of any assistance in the future with information or advice regarding any of your Fisher & Paykel appliances, please do not hesitate to contact us."
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Blog speak:
While I was waiting a WHOLE week for a reply....
I got a good enough online picture, resized by manual stretching in a drawing program, so that it's external dimensions, match that of a ruler, and did a fairly accurate estimation of the thickness of the insulated walls....
Simple scaling - to put in a fancy word to a simple idea....
720mm wide is proportional to 72cm or 0.72m
Scale the photo to a dimension and read off the accurate approximation of the wall thickness..
70mm of wall thickness.
Problem solved.
I am so fucking tired of useless people who run companies and who get / give jobs to clueless people / or have a TOTAL absence of technical training.....
Getting hold of just BASIC information is such a protracted effort....
Like I want to know, "Does the car come with a REAL spare tyre, or an emergency get you home only emergency tyre?"
The reply, "Spare tyre? What do you want that for?"
(Fuck that - I am changing dealers)
A bit like Big W... Mens Clothing Dept - Girl stuffing socks in the socks rack... I am not too sure of my sizes so I ask her if she has a tape measure....
The reply - "What's that?"
The word "Tape" combined with the word "Measure" - don't even register.....
Tape = Item, object, noun, physical item.....
Measure = Size, dimension, length, ruler, act, verb.....
Combined = Tape - a physical item + Measure - to define size, the act of acquiring a size or dimension..... = In a clothing dept...
2 + 2 = complete blank.
Yes - she has left home and asks mom to come around every night to boil the water too....
Never mind that the management are too slack to give a decent amount of basic clothing industry training......
So given the customer service - the manual is SO fucking piss poor... citing no minimum (close to minus 0*C) or maximum (way below 0*C) temperature.
Nor does it list the internal dimensions - because it does hold baskets, boxes, containers etc... and I'd like to see what FITS inside it.... so I can see what I have, if it fits, before I buy it / it arrives...
Nothing in the manual about that.....
So I sent back a reply:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Stop telling people to do stupid shit....
I contact "THE PEOPLE - in THE COMPANY" that make "THE FREEZERS" and your telling me, "We don't have a clue what the internal dimensions are - go to your local retailer and take a tape measure with you."
None in stock,. none in dispatch, none in the warranty / repairs shop, can't ring the technical dept - and get the sizes from the drawings /
What sort of fucking service is that?
I am not prepared to take a trip to the closest retailer - so how dare you try to get me to play along with you outsourcing your responsibilities?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
(After reading this,
"In regards to your query, this freezer is designed to run at -18 degrees Celsius. This can fluctuate between 17 & 19 degrees Celsius.."
It's obvious that the idiot sending the reply hasn't got any idea of what a chest FREEZER actually IS, and that it has a THERMOSTAT - so that you can ADJUST the thermal switching point, of the cooling system on and off - from somewhere around or just under 0*C to some where way below it- so I asked again - another "Mum boils the water on the stove for her after she has left home at 35" type girl....
She has just parroted some script of the maximum cycling temperature - below zero.. Pumps down to -19*C - switches off, when the freezer warms up to -17*C - the thermostat switches the motor back on and pumps it back down to -19*C.
So I can tell by her idiot response that she has never worked a freezer, has no idea what a thermostat is or what it does, no fucking idea about perishable products and storage temperatures and time and wouldn't know what a thermometer was if you stuck it up her arse, and the usual typical corporate offices are filed with stupid people who know fuck all about anything - and thier data bases are fucking worthless.
So I asked her this - AGAIN... in DETAIL.. to pressure her to actually ANSWER the fucking question, instead of palming me off with idiot replies.
And what are the MINIMUM (close to 0*C) and MAXIMUM (far below 0*C) temperature settings?
Not everyone wants everything DEEP frozen....
I don't like ice cream that is as hard as a rock....
And I expect a BETTER answer than the clueless style of copy paste answer.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
And
What is the stand by power consumption?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fucking cunts...
Min and Max, or Less and More - do not cut it as far as Degrees Centigrade go......
Looking at the actual THERMOSTAT - I'd assume that it starts off at -4*C which does count as actually being FROZEN and goes on up, -6, -8, -10, -12, -14, -16 and -18*C
So with the conversion of a chest freezer into a very efficient, ultra low power consumption refrigerator - the simplest way - negating the need to change or add to the thermostat - is to set the temperature to a minimum and use a simple mechanical timer switch.
Because chest freezers tend to be deep and I only want no more than about 30cm of depth, to contain my fresh fruit, vegetables and keep my meat cold for a few days at a time, I shall reduce the depth of this unit, from about 600mm deep, to about 300mm deep, by putting water containers in it, which adds thermal mass; and then put a perforated false bottom on top of the bottles...
I want it ideally to be around 3-5*C
Once it has cooled down and stabilised... I figure that setting the timer to allow it to run for 15 minutes a day - just to see how it holds the cold...
And then switching in a bit more time if necessary - 15 minutes in the morning and 15 minutes in the afternoon. Maybe a bit more in summer....
So I figure that on the mains, that is about 5c worth of power per day, maybe 10c worth in summer.
Down from $1 a day or more, running a BIG fridge, that was mostly empty.
That is pretty good....
And shopping once or twice a week for fresh veges and meat - that is just fine by me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
An update:
Finally - this requires a little thought and understanding of the system - which I do have.
First off, we think in NEGATIVE terms... like a number line.
MORE below 0*C, equals less temperature,
Bigger NEGATIVE = more of less; so therefore MORE = COLDER.
MmmK Got that?
"The highest temperature is approximately -17 degrees and the minimum temperature (this may vary depending on the outside temperature) would be approximately -3 to -4 degrees if set to the warmest temperature."
The answer means that the thermostatically controlled (negative) temperature control, goes from about -3 or -4*C all the way down to about -17*C.
This - for clarification is the THERMOSTATS control range.
(See I was not far off the mark)
But the so called FAST CHILL function, or the maximum temperature - is about -22*C.
This is where the thermostat, reached the limit of the relay switch, and it is switched out and the compressor is running non stop with no temperature control.
Meaning it will just slowly pull the temperature wayyyyyyyyyy down and -22*C is about the limit of the design, incorporating the compressor, the working fluid, the insulation, the single stage compression and expansion etc.
It really fucking shits me how most of the manufacturers are just tooo fucking stupid to include the most basic of information with their products and how they work.
Putting a ring of numbers - from 1 to 6 around a dial is like fitting a vehicle with a speedo that starts at "Slow" and goes around to "Very Fast".
I mean what the fuck does that tell you?
And the dunces who make this shit, don't get that.
Cold - especially REALLY cold temperatures, are an especially important issue with FROZEN food storage and keeping times.
(While I am chewing the desk table legs)
I DO love technically competent people - like scientists etc., who actually MEASURE and ASSESS things, and then disseminate the information amongst the clueless, lazy and indifferent.
FREEZING is a simple issue. Refrigeration - from 5*C and below, only SLOWS down the bacteria breeding... some.
FREEZING - or the underside of the temperature that water turns (generally speaking) into ice, also ONLY slows down bacterial breeding (depending upon species etc) to a point - but there is a zone, well below 0*C where it stops completely.
This is where the storage temperature and time become an issue.
IF I am running a resturaunt and I am making food with slivers of beef in it like "Stir Fry" or "Beef Jerky" as storing the meat at about -5*C for a day or two, because it's really easy to slice thinly is fine, as long as I am moving it into and out of in short storage cycles.
But if any meat is kept at that temperature, for say 3 months - your probably going to get a hospital trip... and maybe a few very sick / dead customers, especially with sea food.
But if I want to keep meat - especially sea food for say 3 months or 6 months, or years, then I need to go wayyyyyyyyy down below zero where bacterial growth stops.
In looking up CLEAR and DEFINITIVE guide to this, there is an enormous amount of "food safety tips" - useful shit like, "Keep frozen food in the freezer."
Which is a source of irritation - both for spelling out the obvious and failing to be remotely scientific about it - and the fact that for ONE specific temperature and storage time chart - there are 400 million idiot lists of "fucking useful" food safety tips.
This is good... not concise and not what I am after but it's educational and scientific.
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/cda-cditech-foodborne.htm/$FILE/foodbrne.pdf
http://www.csiro.au/Outcomes/Food-and-Agriculture/Food-Safety.aspx
If you store your food properly you will keep it in good condition, safe from the growth of food poisoning bacteria; you will also reduce wastage and this will save you money.
Food should be always be stored as recommended by the manufacturer’s instructions on the package (when provided). It is the manufacturer's responsibility to determine the shelf life of food.
The 'use-by date' is the date after which food should not be consumed because of health and safety reasons (even if the packet is unopened).
The 'best-before date' indicates the end of the period in which the food is in peak condition and is applied to foods which are not regarded as high risk with regard to food poisoning.
Some food packages are labelled with specific instructions, such as 'Refrigerate after opening' or 'Consume within 3 days after opening'. These instructions must be followed to minimise the risk of food poisoning.
Do not store opened foods in cans as tin and iron can dissolve into the food spoiling the flavour.
Transfer the leftover food to a glass or plastic container before refrigerating.
Perishable food should be stored at or below 5°C, or at or above 60°C to prevent growth of harmful bacteria.
Correct cooking temperatures are very important especially for some meats, sausages and poultry. The temperature of all parts of minced, rolled or stuffed meats should reach at least 75 °C during cooking. This can be measured with a thermometer or can be recognised as very hot in the mouth.
If food is to be held hot for some time after cooking and before serving, it should be held at or above 60°C. Or if the food is to be retained for serving at a subsequent meal or other occasion it should be refrigerated promptly.
Make sure poultry, such as a whole chicken, reaches at least 75°C during cooking. Alternatively, cook until the juices run clear when pierced at the thickest point (such as the middle of drumstick).
When reheating refrigerated food, the centre of the food should reach at least 75°C.
Frozen food should be placed straight in the freezer when you return home from shopping.
Some foods, such as vegetables, chops and steaks, can be cooked directly from the frozen state. Food such as minced, rolled or stuffed meats and poultry, should be completely thawed before cooking. This is best done in a refrigerator at or below 5°C.
If needed at short notice, packaged frozen food can be defrosted under cool running water or in a microwave. Thawed food which will be cooked (e.g. raw meat), may be refrozen but quality will be reduced.
Learn more about food safety information sources.
http://www.csiro.au/Outcomes/Food-and-Agriculture/handling-food-in-the-home/A-guide-to-storing-food.aspx
The temperature in a frost-free refrigerator is fairly even. However in a moist air refrigerator the coolest part of the refrigerator is near the coils.
Thermometers made especially for refrigerators and freezers are available from some department stores and are a worthwhile investment.
Uncooked minced meat, liver, kidneys, poultry and seafoods need careful storage because they always carry large numbers of spoilage and possibly food poisoning micro-organisms. Some of these micro-organisms can grow even at refrigeration temperatures, so always store these foods in the coldest part of the refrigerator as close as possible to 0 °C.
The longest recommended storage time is three days. To kill any food poisoning bacteria which may be present, always cook minced meat thoroughly to a temperature above 75 °C.
Wrapped fresh meat can be kept safely for up to three days and unwrapped fresh meat up to five days at cold temperatures 0°-3 °C.
Whole red meats (e.g. leg of lamb) and cured meats have a longer storage life, and unwrapped meats last longer than wrapped meats.
Wrapped meat maintains its original high water content and quality but surface growth of micro-organisms is encouraged and the meat becomes slimy after about three days and an 'off' odour can become apparent. The safe thing to do then is to throw it out.
Unwrapped meat keeps longer - fresh meat for up to five days and cured meat for up to three weeks at 0° -3 °C. The meat surface dries out. This retards microbial growth but causes undesirable colour changes and loss of flavour. However, this is preferable to meat going off because it is wrapped. But be sure to expose all surfaces in turn.
Store food you want to keep for a long time, or items like seafoods which are quite susceptible to spoilage, in the coldest part of the refrigerator. Cover all cooked foods and store them on a shelf above uncooked goods. This minimises the risk of food poisoning organisms being transferred from uncooked to cooked foods through drip.
Foods with strong odours, such as seafoods and some cheeses, should be wrapped, and you should avoid storing them for long periods near food such as milk and cream which are susceptible to tainting.
Some flexible films are effective barriers to the transmission of odours but they are not readily available to consumers. The common cling wrap polyethylene films are not very effective, but they are useful in the short term and stop spillages. Closed glass or plastic containers are preferable.
Remember, frozen foods should be put in the freezer section of the refrigerator (or the freezer) as soon as you get home from the shop.
Long-term storage of commercially frozen foods in the home with an ordinary refrigerator is hard to justify. It is better to buy frozen foods as required because some home freezers do not hold food at a sufficiently low temperature to maintain high quality over a long period. Small quantities of bought food can, however, be held frozen for a few weeks at temperatures of between -15 °C and -12 °C without serious loss of quality.
People who freeze their own garden produce are in a somewhat different position as they have full knowledge of the storage history of the frozen product.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well that being said I might push for ALL freezers to list their settings in Degree's Centigrade, and for them to ALL include an adhesive label inside the doors, for the recommended storage times and temperature for common food groups.
Yeah as for the FACT that all freezers (and fridges) ought to include an extra temperature gauge for internal temperature checking.....
I might make that happen too.
It just gets recycled and passed on and grows like entropy of deficiency.
Stupid manufacturers, make stupid products, to be sold by stupid retailers, that get bought by stupid consumers.....
Who raise stupid children who grow up and get jobs as stupid people in stupid companies who put out stupid products etc....
Like the morons in World War One...
One line of men jump up out of the trenchs - they all rush at the machine guns...
They all get shot to pieces...
Then the next line of morons, jumps up out of the trenches, and run at the machine guns....
The people in the military, the people in the government, the people in the news papers.... all hush it up..
That 10,000 people were dumb enough to obey orders, by idiots, to get used as target practice, while the weapons manufacturers made huge profits....
And everyone who refuses to be stupid enough to be used as target practice, gets shot for insubordination.... by idiots...
So we have thousands and thousands of people in the refrigeration industry, who make freezers, with a thermostat type control, that goes from LOW to HIGH - and no specific temperature is listed for that setting...
And not one of these fucking idiots "get it" that adjusting the temperature, means you need to KNOW what the temperature actually is.....
And the thermostat needs to have it's dial graduated to specific temperatures in degrees centigrade, instead of numbers like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc., or small to big wedge type lines - like volume or brightness controls on audio visual equipment.....
Then the whole "fuckup" is front lined by people in the customer service dept, who not only don't they know anything about their product, or how it works, the advice they give is total bullshit......
Haier makes chest freezers - Haier is owned / distributed by Fischer Paykel...
The chest freezer has a KNOB on the front - which I can radically assume, is the thermostat, to set the preferred internal temperature too.
What that temperature is? Who knows? Number 2 or 4 or 6 on a scale - is NOT a temperature.
And non of these fridges / freezers who make them - "get it".
This goes for a whole heap of manufacturers.
The commercial / supermarket fridges and freezers have temperature settings - but the domestic ones - to the best of my knowledge, generally speaking, don't.
Why is this an issue? Because I want to see exactly what the minimum and maximum temperatures are. I want to set the cooler to 5*C above zero, or the freezer to minus 5, 10, or 15 degrees centigrade - then numbers "1" to "6" on a dial are not good enough.
With the Haier Chest FREEZER - So exactly how close to below 0*C at minimum - it will go; and how far below 0*C - it will go - on maximum - and everywhere in between. I also want to set it to a TEMPERATURE.
The Haier chest freezer's control knob looks something like this, and tells me absolutely NOTHING.
This is all that it says in the manual....
Hmmmm - it says, "You can adjust the temperature to your needs."
Number 6. on a thermostats dial, is not a temperature.
It's a switching point on a thermostats relay.
It's like saying "The car tyre is a bit soft" or "It's pretty hard", for an inflation pressure.
But this is not the RATED PRESSURE in Kilopascals.
And this is what these idiot designers are serving up - a freezer that goes from "A bit cold" to "Really cold" - but it does not correlate with setting it to DEGREES CENTIGRADE.
A knob with MIN - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, MAX - is NOT a temperature - it's an uncorrelated SCALE.
If it read Degrees Centigrade - that would be a temperature....
What these idiots have done is screen printed a "number line", on a thermostats covering plate.... and the "NUMBER LINE" is not a TEMPERATURE.
And there is NO clearly defined MINIMUM temperature (close to Minus 0*C) and there is NO clearly defined MAXIMUM temperature (way below 0*C).
So you cannot adjust the temperature, because there is no rated definition of that temperature.
You cannot set it to - 5*C for the easy slicing of frozen meat, or product that only needs to be kept cold for short storage times, before use....
Or if your using lots of ice cream, you might want to set it to an ideal serving temperature of say minus 10*C, or you might want to use the freezer exclusively for LONG TERM meat storage - somewhere approaching minus 20*C.
Number 3 on a scale, doesn't cut it.
All that you can adjust is the switching point of the thermostat's relay - relative to some immeasurable temperature.
The people who design and market this are fucking idiots.
So this stupidity is passed onto the retailers - most of whom in the white goods sales dept., do NOT have a back ground in engineering or technical subjects......
The retailers website, are spewing the factory sales bullshit pitch, which says this:
- Adjustable temperature dial
- Your freezer will automatically maintain the temperature level you select. You can adjust the temperature between "min" and "max" according to your needs.
Yes - and exactly what in the fuck ARE those temperatures?
And where does "Minimum" begin, and "Maximum" end?
Is it -10? -15? -20? -25?
Keeping meat at minus 10*C - is ok for a few weeks - but you might have a hospital trip after 6 months....
Minus 25*C is good for keeping meat for a year...
So the fuckwits that design these freezers, are into letting the consumer play guessing games - with food preservation; which is why people buy the damned things in the first place.
The management, the engineers / refrigeration / electrical / parts contractors / assemblers etc., are fools of the first order....
"This is the way we have always done it" - like lemmings out of the trenches and into the machine gun bullets.... away the unthinking clots go.
Now their crap is flowing through the wholesalers / retailers / sales depts - and they are just parroting the stupidity of the manufacturers.
Granted that this enquiry went to QUEENSLAND - and many people there thought that Joe Bjke Petersen and Flo - and her fucking pumpkin scones made Queensland the Capital of Jesus Land - require the same thing to be said, slowly. like 3 times in a row.....
This went to Fisher and Paykel - the MANUFACTURER of the chest freezer:
"What are the internal dimensions of the chest freezer, and what is it's warmest and coldest temperatures"
(As far as I am concerned, given what a shit job they have done of defining "Temperature" as in Degrees Centigrade - as non specific numbers on a thermostat knob, and their useless fucking user manual - this is an entirely appropriate question)
The Reply:
"Thank you for your email. We apologise for the delayed response.
We could not locate the internal dimensions in our system and have forwarded a request onto our technical department to see if they can locate this information.
It may be best to measure the interior dimensions at a local retailer as we do not have this appliance in our showroom to measure them for you. To find out who is your local Haier authorised dealer please click on the following link:
http://www.haier.com.au/where-
In regards to your query, this freezer is designed to run at -18 degrees Celsius. This can fluctuate between 17 & 19 degrees Celsius..
We apologise we were not able to locate all of the information you have requested.
If we can be of any assistance in the future with information or advice regarding any of your Fisher & Paykel appliances, please do not hesitate to contact us."
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Blog speak:
While I was waiting a WHOLE week for a reply....
I got a good enough online picture, resized by manual stretching in a drawing program, so that it's external dimensions, match that of a ruler, and did a fairly accurate estimation of the thickness of the insulated walls....
- Height: 845 mm
- Width: 720 mm
- Depth: 570 mm
Simple scaling - to put in a fancy word to a simple idea....
720mm wide is proportional to 72cm or 0.72m
Scale the photo to a dimension and read off the accurate approximation of the wall thickness..
70mm of wall thickness.
Problem solved.
I am so fucking tired of useless people who run companies and who get / give jobs to clueless people / or have a TOTAL absence of technical training.....
Getting hold of just BASIC information is such a protracted effort....
Like I want to know, "Does the car come with a REAL spare tyre, or an emergency get you home only emergency tyre?"
The reply, "Spare tyre? What do you want that for?"
(Fuck that - I am changing dealers)
A bit like Big W... Mens Clothing Dept - Girl stuffing socks in the socks rack... I am not too sure of my sizes so I ask her if she has a tape measure....
The reply - "What's that?"
The word "Tape" combined with the word "Measure" - don't even register.....
Tape = Item, object, noun, physical item.....
Measure = Size, dimension, length, ruler, act, verb.....
Combined = Tape - a physical item + Measure - to define size, the act of acquiring a size or dimension..... = In a clothing dept...
2 + 2 = complete blank.
Yes - she has left home and asks mom to come around every night to boil the water too....
Never mind that the management are too slack to give a decent amount of basic clothing industry training......
So given the customer service - the manual is SO fucking piss poor... citing no minimum (close to minus 0*C) or maximum (way below 0*C) temperature.
Nor does it list the internal dimensions - because it does hold baskets, boxes, containers etc... and I'd like to see what FITS inside it.... so I can see what I have, if it fits, before I buy it / it arrives...
Nothing in the manual about that.....
So I sent back a reply:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Stop telling people to do stupid shit....
I contact "THE PEOPLE - in THE COMPANY" that make "THE FREEZERS" and your telling me, "We don't have a clue what the internal dimensions are - go to your local retailer and take a tape measure with you."
None in stock,. none in dispatch, none in the warranty / repairs shop, can't ring the technical dept - and get the sizes from the drawings /
What sort of fucking service is that?
I am not prepared to take a trip to the closest retailer - so how dare you try to get me to play along with you outsourcing your responsibilities?
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(After reading this,
"In regards to your query, this freezer is designed to run at -18 degrees Celsius. This can fluctuate between 17 & 19 degrees Celsius.."
It's obvious that the idiot sending the reply hasn't got any idea of what a chest FREEZER actually IS, and that it has a THERMOSTAT - so that you can ADJUST the thermal switching point, of the cooling system on and off - from somewhere around or just under 0*C to some where way below it- so I asked again - another "Mum boils the water on the stove for her after she has left home at 35" type girl....
She has just parroted some script of the maximum cycling temperature - below zero.. Pumps down to -19*C - switches off, when the freezer warms up to -17*C - the thermostat switches the motor back on and pumps it back down to -19*C.
So I can tell by her idiot response that she has never worked a freezer, has no idea what a thermostat is or what it does, no fucking idea about perishable products and storage temperatures and time and wouldn't know what a thermometer was if you stuck it up her arse, and the usual typical corporate offices are filed with stupid people who know fuck all about anything - and thier data bases are fucking worthless.
So I asked her this - AGAIN... in DETAIL.. to pressure her to actually ANSWER the fucking question, instead of palming me off with idiot replies.
And what are the MINIMUM (close to 0*C) and MAXIMUM (far below 0*C) temperature settings?
Not everyone wants everything DEEP frozen....
I don't like ice cream that is as hard as a rock....
And I expect a BETTER answer than the clueless style of copy paste answer.
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And
What is the stand by power consumption?
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Fucking cunts...
Min and Max, or Less and More - do not cut it as far as Degrees Centigrade go......
Looking at the actual THERMOSTAT - I'd assume that it starts off at -4*C which does count as actually being FROZEN and goes on up, -6, -8, -10, -12, -14, -16 and -18*C
So with the conversion of a chest freezer into a very efficient, ultra low power consumption refrigerator - the simplest way - negating the need to change or add to the thermostat - is to set the temperature to a minimum and use a simple mechanical timer switch.
Because chest freezers tend to be deep and I only want no more than about 30cm of depth, to contain my fresh fruit, vegetables and keep my meat cold for a few days at a time, I shall reduce the depth of this unit, from about 600mm deep, to about 300mm deep, by putting water containers in it, which adds thermal mass; and then put a perforated false bottom on top of the bottles...
I want it ideally to be around 3-5*C
Once it has cooled down and stabilised... I figure that setting the timer to allow it to run for 15 minutes a day - just to see how it holds the cold...
And then switching in a bit more time if necessary - 15 minutes in the morning and 15 minutes in the afternoon. Maybe a bit more in summer....
So I figure that on the mains, that is about 5c worth of power per day, maybe 10c worth in summer.
Down from $1 a day or more, running a BIG fridge, that was mostly empty.
That is pretty good....
And shopping once or twice a week for fresh veges and meat - that is just fine by me.
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An update:
Finally - this requires a little thought and understanding of the system - which I do have.
First off, we think in NEGATIVE terms... like a number line.
MORE below 0*C, equals less temperature,
Bigger NEGATIVE = more of less; so therefore MORE = COLDER.
MmmK Got that?
"The highest temperature is approximately -17 degrees and the minimum temperature (this may vary depending on the outside temperature) would be approximately -3 to -4 degrees if set to the warmest temperature."
The answer means that the thermostatically controlled (negative) temperature control, goes from about -3 or -4*C all the way down to about -17*C.
This - for clarification is the THERMOSTATS control range.
(See I was not far off the mark)
But the so called FAST CHILL function, or the maximum temperature - is about -22*C.
This is where the thermostat, reached the limit of the relay switch, and it is switched out and the compressor is running non stop with no temperature control.
Meaning it will just slowly pull the temperature wayyyyyyyyyy down and -22*C is about the limit of the design, incorporating the compressor, the working fluid, the insulation, the single stage compression and expansion etc.
It really fucking shits me how most of the manufacturers are just tooo fucking stupid to include the most basic of information with their products and how they work.
Putting a ring of numbers - from 1 to 6 around a dial is like fitting a vehicle with a speedo that starts at "Slow" and goes around to "Very Fast".
I mean what the fuck does that tell you?
And the dunces who make this shit, don't get that.
Cold - especially REALLY cold temperatures, are an especially important issue with FROZEN food storage and keeping times.
(While I am chewing the desk table legs)
I DO love technically competent people - like scientists etc., who actually MEASURE and ASSESS things, and then disseminate the information amongst the clueless, lazy and indifferent.
FREEZING is a simple issue. Refrigeration - from 5*C and below, only SLOWS down the bacteria breeding... some.
FREEZING - or the underside of the temperature that water turns (generally speaking) into ice, also ONLY slows down bacterial breeding (depending upon species etc) to a point - but there is a zone, well below 0*C where it stops completely.
This is where the storage temperature and time become an issue.
IF I am running a resturaunt and I am making food with slivers of beef in it like "Stir Fry" or "Beef Jerky" as storing the meat at about -5*C for a day or two, because it's really easy to slice thinly is fine, as long as I am moving it into and out of in short storage cycles.
But if any meat is kept at that temperature, for say 3 months - your probably going to get a hospital trip... and maybe a few very sick / dead customers, especially with sea food.
But if I want to keep meat - especially sea food for say 3 months or 6 months, or years, then I need to go wayyyyyyyyy down below zero where bacterial growth stops.
In looking up CLEAR and DEFINITIVE guide to this, there is an enormous amount of "food safety tips" - useful shit like, "Keep frozen food in the freezer."
Which is a source of irritation - both for spelling out the obvious and failing to be remotely scientific about it - and the fact that for ONE specific temperature and storage time chart - there are 400 million idiot lists of "fucking useful" food safety tips.
This is good... not concise and not what I am after but it's educational and scientific.
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/cda-cditech-foodborne.htm/$FILE/foodbrne.pdf
http://www.csiro.au/Outcomes/Food-and-Agriculture/Food-Safety.aspx
Shelf life
All food has a limited shelf life. This varies depending on the food type, how it is packaged and how carefully it is stored.If you store your food properly you will keep it in good condition, safe from the growth of food poisoning bacteria; you will also reduce wastage and this will save you money.
Food should be always be stored as recommended by the manufacturer’s instructions on the package (when provided). It is the manufacturer's responsibility to determine the shelf life of food.
The 'use-by date' is the date after which food should not be consumed because of health and safety reasons (even if the packet is unopened).
The 'best-before date' indicates the end of the period in which the food is in peak condition and is applied to foods which are not regarded as high risk with regard to food poisoning.
Some food packages are labelled with specific instructions, such as 'Refrigerate after opening' or 'Consume within 3 days after opening'. These instructions must be followed to minimise the risk of food poisoning.
Food storage
Tips for storing refrigerated perishable foods:- use a refrigerator thermometer to check your refrigerator is at or below 5°C
- avoid overloading the refrigerator; space between items allows cold air to move over the food
- do not buy swollen chilled packages, this indicates bacteria have grown in the food
- ready to eat foods (for example salad or cooked quiche) should be stored on shelves above uncooked food such as raw meat, to prevent any juices from the raw food dripping onto ready to eat foods
- raw meats, fish and poultry should be stored well wrapped or contained to prevent their juices leaking onto other foods or the inside of the refrigerator.
Do not store opened foods in cans as tin and iron can dissolve into the food spoiling the flavour.
Transfer the leftover food to a glass or plastic container before refrigerating.
Correct storage of food is essential in preventing the growth of dangerous food poisoning bacteria.
Safe and unsafe temperatures
Use of correct storage temperatures for food is extremely important. Between 5°C and 60°C is called the 'temperature danger zone'. This is the temperature range in which potentially harmful bacteria can multiply.Perishable food should be stored at or below 5°C, or at or above 60°C to prevent growth of harmful bacteria.
Correct cooking temperatures are very important especially for some meats, sausages and poultry. The temperature of all parts of minced, rolled or stuffed meats should reach at least 75 °C during cooking. This can be measured with a thermometer or can be recognised as very hot in the mouth.
If food is to be held hot for some time after cooking and before serving, it should be held at or above 60°C. Or if the food is to be retained for serving at a subsequent meal or other occasion it should be refrigerated promptly.
Make sure poultry, such as a whole chicken, reaches at least 75°C during cooking. Alternatively, cook until the juices run clear when pierced at the thickest point (such as the middle of drumstick).
When reheating refrigerated food, the centre of the food should reach at least 75°C.
Frozen foods
Freezing food at -18°C stops bacteria from growing and slows down chemical changes which may affect the quality of food.Frozen food should be placed straight in the freezer when you return home from shopping.
Some foods, such as vegetables, chops and steaks, can be cooked directly from the frozen state. Food such as minced, rolled or stuffed meats and poultry, should be completely thawed before cooking. This is best done in a refrigerator at or below 5°C.
If needed at short notice, packaged frozen food can be defrosted under cool running water or in a microwave. Thawed food which will be cooked (e.g. raw meat), may be refrozen but quality will be reduced.
Learn more about food safety information sources.
http://www.csiro.au/Outcomes/Food-and-Agriculture/handling-food-in-the-home/A-guide-to-storing-food.aspx
Refrigerator guide
Perishable non-frozen foods
Refrigeration can substantially reduce the rate at which food will deteriorate. Low temperatures slow down the growth of micro-organisms and the rate of chemical changes in food.The temperature in a frost-free refrigerator is fairly even. However in a moist air refrigerator the coolest part of the refrigerator is near the coils.
Thermometers made especially for refrigerators and freezers are available from some department stores and are a worthwhile investment.
Uncooked minced meat, liver, kidneys, poultry and seafoods need careful storage because they always carry large numbers of spoilage and possibly food poisoning micro-organisms. Some of these micro-organisms can grow even at refrigeration temperatures, so always store these foods in the coldest part of the refrigerator as close as possible to 0 °C.
The longest recommended storage time is three days. To kill any food poisoning bacteria which may be present, always cook minced meat thoroughly to a temperature above 75 °C.
| Recommended refrigeration storage temperatures for some foods | ||
| Food storage temperature | °C | Shelf life in the home |
| Seafoods | 0-3 | 3 days |
| Crustaceans and molluscs | 0-3 | 2 days |
| Meat | 0-3 | 3-5 days |
| Minced meat and offal | 0-3 | 2-3 days |
| Cured meat | 0-3 | 2-3 weeks |
| Poultry | 0-3 | 3 days |
| Fruit juices | 0-7 | 7-14 days |
| Milk | 1-7 | 5-7 days |
| Cream | 1-7 | 5 days |
| Cheese | 0-7 | variable (1-3 months) |
| Butter | 0-7 | 8 weeks |
| Oil & Fat | 2-7 | variable (6 months) |
| Margarine | 2-7 | variable (6 months) |
| Chilled meats and meal components | 0-3 | no longer than 'use by' date |
| Leftovers | 0-3 | 3-5 days |
Wrapped fresh meat can be kept safely for up to three days and unwrapped fresh meat up to five days at cold temperatures 0°-3 °C.
Whole red meats (e.g. leg of lamb) and cured meats have a longer storage life, and unwrapped meats last longer than wrapped meats.
Wrapped meat maintains its original high water content and quality but surface growth of micro-organisms is encouraged and the meat becomes slimy after about three days and an 'off' odour can become apparent. The safe thing to do then is to throw it out.
Unwrapped meat keeps longer - fresh meat for up to five days and cured meat for up to three weeks at 0° -3 °C. The meat surface dries out. This retards microbial growth but causes undesirable colour changes and loss of flavour. However, this is preferable to meat going off because it is wrapped. But be sure to expose all surfaces in turn.
Refrigeration hints
Throw out food which is going off because putting it in a colder part of the refrigerator will not stop it deteriorating further. It can taint other food.Store food you want to keep for a long time, or items like seafoods which are quite susceptible to spoilage, in the coldest part of the refrigerator. Cover all cooked foods and store them on a shelf above uncooked goods. This minimises the risk of food poisoning organisms being transferred from uncooked to cooked foods through drip.
Foods with strong odours, such as seafoods and some cheeses, should be wrapped, and you should avoid storing them for long periods near food such as milk and cream which are susceptible to tainting.
Some flexible films are effective barriers to the transmission of odours but they are not readily available to consumers. The common cling wrap polyethylene films are not very effective, but they are useful in the short term and stop spillages. Closed glass or plastic containers are preferable.
Frozen foods
Freezing food and holding it at a very low temperature, around -18°C, almost completely stops deterioration. Thawing or even a rise in temperature without thawing stimulates chemical and microbiological activity and spoilage may occur.Remember, frozen foods should be put in the freezer section of the refrigerator (or the freezer) as soon as you get home from the shop.
Long-term storage of commercially frozen foods in the home with an ordinary refrigerator is hard to justify. It is better to buy frozen foods as required because some home freezers do not hold food at a sufficiently low temperature to maintain high quality over a long period. Small quantities of bought food can, however, be held frozen for a few weeks at temperatures of between -15 °C and -12 °C without serious loss of quality.
People who freeze their own garden produce are in a somewhat different position as they have full knowledge of the storage history of the frozen product.
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Well that being said I might push for ALL freezers to list their settings in Degree's Centigrade, and for them to ALL include an adhesive label inside the doors, for the recommended storage times and temperature for common food groups.
Yeah as for the FACT that all freezers (and fridges) ought to include an extra temperature gauge for internal temperature checking.....
I might make that happen too.
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